Rogue to Replace Green Dragon

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Posted under places to drink beer

This post was written by Angelo on November 13, 2008

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47 Comments so far

  1. da November 13, 2008 6:34 pm

    I wonder if I can demand that Rogue honors my mug club membership?

    Also, this doesn’t make sense, what about the distillery there? Did they buy that also? If not they would be in joint housing with one of their direct competitors.

    Wait, is it April 1st already?

    Well at least we have Bailey’s tavern now, and as of January the Brass will be non-smoking.

  2. Matthew November 13, 2008 7:41 pm

    I’m not typically a total Rogue hater… but this is extremely bad news. But like DA said, Bailey’s and Horse Brass, I too am looking forward to a non-smoking Horse Brass Pub.

    -Bo

  3. Jason November 13, 2008 8:02 pm

    I have to echo previous comments. This is terrible news. I was just at the Green Dragon yesterday and wouldn’t have guessed anything was afoot. This has quickly become one of my favorite places in Portland. The taplist, the food, the atmosphere and the people are (were?) all top notch. Do we need 2 Rogues in PDX?

    I also agree that I cannot wait for January for the Horse Brass to be smoke free (well maybe February – it will take some time for that place to clean up!). I appreciate Bailey’s Taproom for the taplist but have never found the atmosphere inviting. Plus, they aren’t open until 4 pm.

  4. Andrew Self November 13, 2008 8:15 pm

    I’d heard rumblings of this from both non-Green Dragon people as well as a highly-placed source at the Dragon, but I’m not happy to see it happen. If Rogue wants to replace 1/3 of the taps with their own beer, fine. I don’t dislike Rogue beer at all. But 18? I’ve been to their NW pub a number of times, and every time I’ve been they’ve been out of half their tap list! So does that mean the Dragon will have 18 taps, but 9 are empty? That would be ridiculous.

    As a side note, I’d hate to see my Founder’s status go to waste, as well. That’s been one of my consistent draws to the Dragon, naturally.

  5. Dave November 13, 2008 8:20 pm

    Wow, that’s a pretty negative take on things. Its a bummer that the GD is going out of business, but at least it will still be in the hands of people who will provide delicious craft beer. It sounds to me like a lot of what you wrote is hearsay.

  6. admin November 13, 2008 8:28 pm

    Delicious craft beer yes. Fair prices…you decide. It is negative for people to lose there jobs, too. Good people. I heard this from reliable sources that I am not going to disclose because they asked me not to. You obviously can’t get enough of Rogue and if you don’t care about layoffs, than perhaps I did come across as negative. I support Rogue by buying there products even if I don’t agree with their marketing first mentality.

  7. Andrew Self November 13, 2008 8:39 pm

    @admin November 13, 2008 8:28 pm

    I enjoy Rogue beers quite a bit and I wouldn’t object to Rogue ownership of the Green Dragon if they made only slight changes, but I agree the drastic upheaval that’s likely to happen in terms of jobs, price, beer availability and beer selection is what’s souring me on this deal.

  8. Andy November 13, 2008 8:42 pm

    “It’s a good thing, too. I’m sick of rotating tap offerings and visiting brewers. I’ve always said we needed a place in SE where we could buy $5.50 pints of house-made beer and $15 cheeseburgers.”

    Point well made. There’s a reason I only go to the Rogue public house once a year.

  9. Andrew Self November 13, 2008 8:46 pm

    @Andy

    Technically, we have a place in SE with $5.50 pints of beer and $15 cheeseburgers already. In fact, it’s right across the street along with $20/round bowling.

  10. squaremile November 13, 2008 8:58 pm

    Didn’t know Rogue was that hated! I would’ve been to GD many more times if they were dedicated enough to have a twitter feed or updated their website tap list once in awhile. Its a fine place to drink but as someone who likes to chase beers i never really wanted to just go down there and try my luck. Brass, Bailey’s, Concordia, and Belmont Station should be able to cover things.

  11. Andrew Self November 13, 2008 9:21 pm

    @squaremile

    I don’t think it’s a hatred of Rogue, just that this looks an awful lot like a hostile takeover of a place a lot of people like the way it is.

  12. Banjo November 13, 2008 9:23 pm

    I don’t think they’ll be replacing it. Green dragon will still be there just like Issaquah Brewing, and Eugene City Brewery. It will still have it’s own identity. It will simply become a part of the Rogue Nation and if the pattern stays true to form, it will thrive.

  13. Rick Turoczy November 13, 2008 9:27 pm

    Sad. Very sad.

    Hope the staff is okay. They always made us feel extremely welcome.

    Looks like it’s time to find a new geek bar of choice.

  14. Kevin Scaldeferri November 13, 2008 9:28 pm

    @squaremile was that meant to be sarcastic? @pdxgreendragon is on twitter.

    Overall, have to say this doesn’t make sense. The place is packed whenever I’m there. Why would they need to sell?

  15. despardm November 13, 2008 9:30 pm

    @squaremile

    I don’t know that it is so much that Rogue is so hated, as that the Green Dragon is so loved. Personally I’ve had good and bad experiences with both. What I will miss is the diversity; I can’t see that it is to anybody’s benefit to have one less pub with a varied rotating tap list. As it happens I agree with you about their online tap list (last updated on June 4th) but I’d still prefer to have the option of going down there to try my luck. The thing that irks me most about the ‘takeover’, though, is that it sounds as if Rogue is not making any effort to take the Green Dragon employees into its fold. It that is indeed so, then shame on them.

  16. Andrew Self November 13, 2008 9:31 pm

    @Kevin Scaldeferri I think he meant with updating tap info on Twitter, like Bailey’s does. Maybe Rogue made them an offer they couldn’t refuse.

    @Banjo Hopefully, but those were both established breweries, and right now GD is a pub with brewing equipment in the back.

  17. Stacy November 13, 2008 9:33 pm

    I like Rogue’s beers, but hate the price. And since Green Dragon is the best bar near my office it’ll be especially sad to see it go. I like the rotating taps and feel like they were just hitting their stride with the food and venue.

    I wonder what this will mean for 12 Bridges gin…

  18. Lucas November 13, 2008 9:35 pm

    FUCK ROGUE

  19. despardm November 13, 2008 9:39 pm

    @Kevin Scaldeferri

    Unfortunately, packed does not equal financially successful or even solvent. I know this from personal experience.

  20. Wyatt Werner November 13, 2008 9:42 pm

    The move makes sense to me, no matter how unfortunate. Rogue is expanding its distilling operation, offering a whisky this/last month. I’ll never lament the expansion of Rogue’s empire, but it’s sad to see the Green Dragon go…very sad! Any news on what the owners will do next?

    @wyattwerner

  21. Ninj November 13, 2008 9:45 pm

    Who needed a feed of what taps were on? with that many there were always at least three that were must-haves. Great happy hour, cool staff. Getting a bit weepy here. fcking rogue.

  22. eric November 13, 2008 9:52 pm

    this is very hard to believe.

  23. Sharon November 13, 2008 9:52 pm

    Interesting to see so much hate thrown at Rogue. Really, you can’t buy if someone isn’t selling, and since the Green Dragon is doing quite well for itself in terms of branding and marketing itself I don’t think the company was desperate.

    So that makes me think that 2 of the 3 owners wanted out, and the 1 leftover owner didn’t have the experience or negotiating capacity to work out with their other compadres a buy out plan or to bring in other investors.

    Too bad. I, myself, shan’t be attending in the future as I like to try different beers from around the world, and it sounds like that’s no longer going to be an option at this location. The place was great while it lasted…

  24. Doug November 13, 2008 9:55 pm

    Very, very sad…Perhaps Rogue is going to close the pub side of their NW location because Deschutes has taken away so much of their business, and move it into the Green Dragon space instead?

  25. Lucas November 13, 2008 10:02 pm

    I hated rogue before this news, because it’s an overpriced horseshit bar full of horseshit pearlites and asshole bartenders; one of the worst bars in town. Sure they have great beer, but I can get a pint of Dead Guy or Shakespeare at Triple Nickel for $3.50.

    Green Dragon had grown into one of my neighborhood faves and this is awful, sad news. There is absolutely NO WAY I will patronize this place if it …. (wait for it) …. goes rogue. Why can’t they just buy a space like Plan B, which changes ownership every two years anyway?

  26. Chris November 13, 2008 10:05 pm

    To those saying “Fuck Rogue” I have but one comment; direct your anger towards those who deserve it. The GD was a privately held company, and therefore wasn’t subject to any “hostile takeovers” or “offers they couldn’t refuse.” The only people with the power to sell are the owners, and it’s theirs to sell to whomever they choose, for whatever price they feel is worthwhile. If you don’t like Rogue I can understand not patronizing the new GD/Rogue pub, but directing your hatred towards them is unfair and uncalled for.

    Personal feelings aside, if it came down to:

    A)the GD closing
    ~or~
    B)selling to Rogue

    I’d hope most people’s answer is B.

  27. Dave November 13, 2008 10:12 pm

    Still all sounds like a lot of hear say to me. I’m not going to freak out until we see what ACTUALLY is happening. This is a great example of how misconstrued things can get by listening to and publishing info from “reliable and undisclosed sources”. So far the only person who has laid off workers, etc is the person who wrote this blog.

  28. Sharon November 13, 2008 10:18 pm

    @Chris November 13, 2008 10:05 pm

    Their business and brand was doing very very well.

    So either, they make some bad recent investments, and the books weren’t as great as one would like and they needed to sell….or 2/3 owners -wanted- to sell.

    Either way, it’s definitely a GD issue.

  29. In The Know November 13, 2008 10:20 pm

    This “buyout” has been building, and been kept quite hush-hush, for well over a month now. It’s sad that it’s coming to fruition the way it is. Well, that is *if* it can.

    There is a legal issue here. Unless there’s some kind of loophole in the owners contract (which is fairly likely, don’t get me wrong), both must agree to sell the business. And we know that one owner really doesn’t want to sell. I’m not seeing this as over yet. Or rather, I see a lawsuit coming down the pike if anything.

    Beyond that, no one truly knows why the Dragon is being sold. Most people’s opinions I’ve read are completely wrong. The real reason is fear. And that’s all I’m saying about that.

    Let’s see where the chips fall before the end of the year. It should prove interesting…

  30. da November 13, 2008 10:24 pm

    From Brett Joyce:

    We have requested the following retraction and clarification from brewrepublic.com:

    -no employees at the Green Dragon have been fired
    -we do not have new employees “lined up”
    -the proposed purchase is not final and is subject to regulatory approval
    -the Green Dragon will not be closed down for 3 days. It will not be closed at all.

    Cheers,
    Brett Joyce
    Rogue Ales

    So, the rumors are true that there is a proposal, but nothing concrete. Glad to hear the staffs jobs are safe for a little while. Everyone at the GD always treated me great, sad to see it go.

  31. Drache November 13, 2008 10:26 pm

    GD…should stand for Green DRAMA. This place has put more beer geeks’ underwear in a bunch than lines at the Winter Beerfest.

    There are plenty of other fine establishments with outstanding beer lists. In economic times like these, why not share the love to some of these others and just watch the GDrama unfold.

    You’ll still get your beer….. ;(

  32. Sharon November 13, 2008 10:32 pm

    @Drache November 13, 2008 10:26 pm

    In economic times like these, why not share the names of your other fine establishment suggestions?

  33. g'haad November 13, 2008 10:46 pm

    Lucas: Thank you, very well put. To those who are surprised by the outpouring of negativity towards Rogue, I say this: When is the last time you or somebody you know said ‘I love…(insert one or more of following): 1. Rogue beers 2. Going to the Rogue Public House 3. Eating at Rogue 4. Spending $5.50 on a pint of Hazelnut beer…and so on.’ F*cking NEVER thats when. Rogue is over-price, over-rated shyte and has been for years. RIP GD, we’ll miss you.

  34. Mr Hokum November 14, 2008 1:37 am

    Squaremile… Where does Concordia list it’s current taps?

  35. squaremile November 14, 2008 3:42 am

    @despardm

    Clarification: They have a twitter feed for their meet the brewer events but not their beers on tap.

    @Mr Hokum

    they don’t which is why I rarely go up there unless Brewpublic posts it :-)

  36. Neil Hamburgers Biggets Fan November 14, 2008 5:03 pm

    please dont all start going to the horsebrass! Replace the happy hour with Sassys, $2.00 micros from 4p-7p!! you can drink AND tip dancers and be ahead of the game + its only a block away. The Acropolis is also a good answer, cheap pitchers, lots of taps and plenty of beef, WAY better than the horsebrass.

  37. skatt4u November 14, 2008 6:42 pm

    I like the GD and the people that work there and the beer and the occasional music come to think of it I like it all… Not to beat a dead horse (not talking about the brass) but I recently went to the Eugene city brewery and was disappointed to say the least… Rogue should be ashamed of almost everything but the 200 meter which isn’t even their beer, I think portland will figure it out but i’d like to see a place with atmosphere quality beer good staff great music on occasion, and no drama just because we drink a lot of beer doesn’t mean we have to be unproffesional about it, maybe that’s why mcminishitty’s laurelmilfwood not so rogue and deschittes can take over… Belmont station, Baily’s, Brass and others alike should kick it up a notch and were a metaphorical tie to work, impress us or flurish in a sea of mediocrity and mediocre beer. Can someone check my spelling I’m on my iPod. (no spell check) cheers to the good ones!

  38. skatt4u November 14, 2008 7:04 pm

    Commas, grammer, and wear, not were. I clarify as well; great beer, not just beer in general. “Just because we drink a lot of GREAT beer.”
    And I didn’t realize Jughead resided in Portland and commented on BrewPublic. I’d like to thank Joyce for her concerne as well… And big ups to Angelo D.

  39. Kerry Finsand November 14, 2008 8:28 pm

    Now that the news is public I can speak my mind. I started off as a dedicated fan of the Green Dragon and ended up helping them with marketing including setting up and promoting their twitter account. I have worked with the first two owners and have seen many improvements to the place. It would be said to see this place go and if Rogue can save it we should all be happy. I think before people are negative with Rogue they should see want actually happens or speak their 2 cents to the new owners. The Green Dragon has become a Beervana favorite and hopefully under new ownership its patrons can help keep it a favorite.

  40. Kerry Finsand November 15, 2008 1:25 am

    Excuse my typos from the previous posts.

  41. lodgegoat November 15, 2008 5:14 pm

    I don’t see one of the owners just blindly walking into this, he takes his brand serious and has loyalty to the crew. Lots of hype , let’s see some facts. Independence doesn’t come cheap- and the loss of blood and treasure is not spent lightly.

  42. Alex November 16, 2008 12:23 am

    I’m astonished at the hatred expressed toward Rogue in what is not even an official deal yet. Seems misplaced.

    The Green Dragon is built on a great concept. We’ll see what Rogue will do with it (if this goes through) but it seems rather pathetic to sit and speculate and throw out expletives left and right.

    I love the Green Dragon and the idea of it changing is unfortunate, but the atmosphere and beer selection is not something we are just inherently entitled to. It costs money to own and operate and pay for.

    Welcome to the real world.

    And while I read a lot of people feeling victimized, I wonder what Paul Revere and Sam Adams would be blogging…

  43. jake November 16, 2008 12:57 am

    Great post, Alex.

  44. skatt4u November 17, 2008 3:28 am

    I think upright brewing should buy the green dragon and serve brazillian food!

  45. LoLo November 18, 2008 8:28 am

    Declaration of War

    We the minority owners of The Green Dragon, the little people, the Founders Club, the loyal patrons who love the Dragon so, openly declare war on the oppressive forces of the Rogue Nation. We make this Declaration in response to Rogue’s direct attack upon the Dragon.

    For those who do not know, Rogue is seeking to execute a hostile take over of the Dragon. This takeover is against the wishes of the masses. Our pockets may not be deep, but our hearts are, and our numbers many.

    I implore you to visit Rogue’s website and read their creed, their declaration of independence and what they believe in. Their creed makes many claims about the beliefs and values of the Nation. If you read the creed you will see that the Nation’s actions are in direct violation of their creed. Due to the Nation’s direct violation of their creed we request that all members of the Nation, who believe in what Rogue allegedly stands for, to stand with us in our new revolution. We encourage you to act in some sort of symbolic protest. Perhaps all members of the Nation who are against the Treasonous acts of their leaders, mail or deliver their Nation ID’s back to Rogue. Ghandi was at the forefront of non-violence protest, the art of Satyagraha—the résistance to tyranny through mass civil disobedience. Join us!

    Rogue claims to be a small revolution. They aspire to be a successful organization “without being big.” Rogue claims they will “stand up to the big guy trying to bully his way into whatever business or territory he wants.” They claim Rogue will be “David.” In Rogue’s “Fundamental Agreement” they make many claims such as: “they will be honest on the battlefield, and most important “cut out the BS.”

    The Nation further believes as stated in their “Declaration of Independence” that the members of their nation “are endowed with certain unalienable Rights, that among these Freedom of Expression, Absence of Bull Shit, Variety, and the pursuit of Beer with Taste. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituting among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the Consumers: that when any Form of Government becomes destructive to taste, Expression, Quality, or Fun, it is the right of the Consumers to alter or to abolish it and to institute a new Government.” Further, they declare that all members of their Nation shall “of Right ought to be Free and Independent.” Well Rogue, we the Consumers, we the family of Green Dragon, wish to abolish you from our nation.

    The leaders of the Nation need to take a long look in the mirror. There they will find a bunch of hypocrites. They are a large multi-national corporation, seeking to take down the little guy. I am certain this backdoor sneak attack, an undercover theft of the Dragon, is not “honesty on the battlefield.” The Dragon’s alleged crime: trying to build a place for the neighborhood, a place where friends and family can drink good beer and food at reasonable prices. We the family of the Dragon truly represent David and we will take down the Goliath known as Rogue. If they truly believe the claims they make on their website, they will lay their arms down and leave the battlefield. If you, the leaders of the Nation surrender now, we many revolutionaries will take no further action, you will be allowed to return to your homes. However, you will get no spoils of war from us.

    Just like the founding fathers based at the Original Green Dragon, who formed a revolution to crush the British, we also will spill Rogue’s Tea. The Founding Fathers of the United States wrote in their Declaration of Independence: “When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal stationed to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the cause which impel them to separation.” (July 4, 1776). We, the many of the Dragon, are equally stationed, our opinions dictate and require that you remain separate. Two separate nations free to do what they desire.

    This aggression will not stand….man (“The Dude”)

    “Let us cry havoc and release the [dragons] of war.” (William Shakespeare and his dogs)

    Signed—

    The Many. The Proud. The family of the Dragon.

  46. Don November 18, 2008 10:51 pm

    Overall, very sad news.

    I’m hoping for a last minute miracle that soundly rejects the takeover.

    If the deal does go down, I’ll probably go elsewhere to drink amazing beer. Sad!

  47. pkd99 December 3, 2008 12:22 am

    Why not have a wait and see attitude? That is mine. We have no idea how it will turn out. Maybe the folks at Rogue are smart businesspeople and are not planning to turn this into a Rogue Brewpub but are planning to keep GD as it is and make it financially viable. One can hope. As a businessperson myself, it seems that almost every decision made around business, especially those we can’t explain, actually revolve around ***money*** in one way or another. I think it would be cool to buy another business with a good concept and let it be, separate from what I am doing. I would be surprised, however, not to see a couple of Rogue Beers on tap at any one time. Heck, there was a Rogue amber on tap a couple of weeks ago. There are some powerful disses of Rogue here. I have never gone to their brewpub in NW, but I occasionally buy their bottled beers. Yes, if they weren’t so expensive I would buy them more, but apparently they are thriving and are just another choice in the market. What I have tried I have enjoyed. By the way – last time I was at Green Dragon (last night!) the bartender turned me on to a half and half made of Bison Chocolate Stout and Framboise Lambic. Sound weird? In my book, it was wonderful. (And as expensive as Rogue!)

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